Bolts at Railway Crag

It’s sharp....really sharp!

Moderators: chossmonkey, Dom, granite_grrl, peter, Climb Nova Scotia, Matt Peck

Bolts at Railway Crag

Postby Rich » Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:49 am

Not trying to get a big debate going here but to whomever is developing a sport climb at the far left side of the Railway Crag - please do not bolt cracks. The flake/crack system that the climb starts off in would soak up bomber gear and your bolts are unneccesary. Mixed gear climbs are fun and there is an established ethic in Nova Scotia against this manner of bolt placement.
Chears,
-rich
User avatar
Rich
 
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:37 am

Postby The Mitt » Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:56 am

I remember seeing the bolts there last year, just to the left of Derailed. Kind of a bummer cause the route would have been a bold hard route.

Mitt
User avatar
The Mitt
 
Posts: 847
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:22 pm
Location: Prospect NS

Postby Zamboni » Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:44 pm

It still is! Just dont use the bolts..
User avatar
Zamboni
 
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:59 pm
Location: Halifax

Postby The Mitt » Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:47 pm

Not the same.

Mitt
User avatar
The Mitt
 
Posts: 847
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:22 pm
Location: Prospect NS

Postby Stevo » Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:36 pm

Are you talking about the little crag right next to the old railway track?

I don't remember there being much decent rock just left of Derailed.

Cheers
Steve
Stevo
 
Posts: 314
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:22 am
Location: St. Margarets Bay

Postby tracstarr » Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:27 pm

i second that conan. :)

shhhhhhh, don't get things flared up again.
User avatar
tracstarr
 
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:26 am
Location: at my desk

Postby szymiec » Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:44 pm

It think 6 replies constitutes a big debate. Clip it or dont, they should have put that bolt to good use. Not very traditional thinking.

Recycle Reduce Reuse
User avatar
szymiec
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:12 am
Location: Alberta

Postby dpg » Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:57 pm

Ya, lets go to Yosemite or Indian Creek and start bolting crack climbs.
Since it is such good style and you can just "ignore" the bolts anyways; I wonder why it hasn’t already been done.
Guess Scotia rock just isn’t worth maintaining ethics or esthetics.
dpg
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:49 pm

Postby kate » Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:51 pm

Why do people always respond with their 2 cents from behind a computer without taking the time to go out and see things for themselves..? Just curious. :?
kate
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:08 am

Postby The Mitt » Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:58 pm

Speaking as one of the usual "hotheads" I really don't think this one incident is really a big deal, the potential for anything great there is very low. Really if anything its just a waste of the bolters time.

Mitt
User avatar
The Mitt
 
Posts: 847
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:22 pm
Location: Prospect NS

Postby tracstarr » Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:39 pm

yeah. that's why it's not completed. The bolter found out it was just a waste of time. I think for the most part 'ethics' in NS for bolting are upheld to what non-bolters want to see. Truth of the matter is not everyone sees things the same way. I for one like bolts. It's always a debate, all over the world.
User avatar
tracstarr
 
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:26 am
Location: at my desk

Postby The Mitt » Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:23 pm

I have to disagree with that. The majority of the developers around here don't have a negative view on bolts, just that there is a place for them. Cracks are no place for bolts, if you want to climb a route that can be protected with gear then get gear. I feel very strongly about developing more sport routes but I want to do it in a style that I can live with and that future climbers will enjoy the routes and the piece that I have created.

Some people look at "anchors" (meaning gear and bolts) as just a means to safely equip a route. Others look at it as an expression of the first acensionist, some routes are bold and daring like the climbers that do them. Others are clip ups that are great to get your head into leading. Both have merit, which is why I think this is a healthy debate in our community. Its when someone takes things to far either way that we run into problems. The only major issue is that if someone puts up a ton of x-rated routes the community can always agree to add bolts in the future. But add to many bolts and you alter the route for ever.

I don't think that Nova Scotia's "ethic" is that far off of most of North America's. We just have more developers who would rather work on Trad routes. In the past year I have scoped out maybe 10-50 possible sport routes, but they will take a huge amount of time and money to put up. Hell I am willing to take people out tell them where the routes are help them clean, show them how to bolt and give them the first ascent. I put this out every year and maybe only get one or 2 people who take me up on it.

Mitt
Sorry for the long winded post, I'm trying to be constructive and not flame anyone for a change.
User avatar
The Mitt
 
Posts: 847
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:22 pm
Location: Prospect NS

Postby szymiec » Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:08 pm

I wish i was going to be here this summer Mittins. To bad i am going to Alberta teaching a trad climbing course.

I want to see you an mike in the buggaboos this summer. I'll pull up the piggies.

I am glad this forum is becoming active again. Nothing like an un-answerable question to wake people up.

c
User avatar
szymiec
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:12 am
Location: Alberta

Postby The Mitt » Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:19 pm

It sux that you are going man, Have fun in the Bugs and we will see you there. Will you be comming back at all?

Mitt
User avatar
The Mitt
 
Posts: 847
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:22 pm
Location: Prospect NS

Postby seanT » Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:28 am

As the person responsible for the bolts in question here is how it went down.
I rapped the route in the winter last year(I think) and scrubbed it. Then installed the 2 bolts climbing ground up on self belay. The "crack" in question is not really a crack but rather a space between a huge hollow feature that is held to the main wall by mud. Upon reaching the end of this feature which you are climbing on(5.8 climbing) you are left with most likely 5.12-13 climbing for another 10 feet. There is a partially drilled 3rd hole just above the feature but after testing the waters so to speak I didnt see the point in continuing with the bolting as the route would just be total garbage. Who wants to climb 20 feet of 5.8 and 10-15 feet of 5.13? This route would be super fun for someone to practice dry tooling on or aid climbing on as there are some good hook placements. Perhaps that is the future for this line...
Now for all you purisists.. go out there tie in, climb up the feature, slam in a cam, climb above it and jump off. When your cam blows the entire feature off onto you and your belayer have a good look at the bolts on the way by. Bolting cracks is bad, using bolts as protection instead of giant hollow features is good. O and by the way have you been to the top of Skull rock?Seen the railings at the lookout mabye you should write a letter to the NS trails association telling them the bolts holding thier railing in place are pollution.
Perhaps I am over reacting but I grow weary of this same old debate and more weary of people slagging route developers. For every day of climbing I do I probably spend 2-3 days hanging in my harness putting up NEW routes for people to climb and working on trails to help get them to the climbs. When was the last time YOU did that?
Peace Im out, got some new boulders to scrub.
SeanT
seanT
 
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:39 am

Postby szymiec » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:01 am

oh my god, Dry Tooling at the crag?

Here we go again...

i agree with SeanT
User avatar
szymiec
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:12 am
Location: Alberta

Postby Stevo » Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:30 pm

It would be nice if redundant bolts were removed though, and yes I have complained about the bolted railings put up by the Musquodoboit trails ass. If you see a pile of old railings on the ground out there, that have obviously been cast from the top, I might have some idea of the culprit......
Stevo
 
Posts: 314
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:22 am
Location: St. Margarets Bay

Railway Crag

Postby peter » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:38 pm

seanT wrote: O and by the way have you been to the top of Skull rock?Seen the railings at the lookout mabye you should write a letter to the NS trails association telling them the bolts holding thier railing in place are pollution.


Hey! Don't put that railing in the same camp as the bolts. I have rapped off that railing! It is solid, and I say thanks to the people that put it up.

About this debate: welcome to France, where all cracks are bolted. I have never placed a bolt myself, but I don't climb hard enough to warrant one. If I see a bolt on a trad route, I just don't clip it if I have the gear.

I would chop any bolts retro-fitted on an existing trad route, but Sean Th. was the one putting up the route, so it is his call in light of what he saw.

signed Peter aka Pierre aka he who "jamais ne péte plus haut que son cul"
User avatar
peter
 
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:12 pm
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia


Return to Nova Scotia

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 45 guests